That should put all of us on alert. If any vet says something like that and drops your tortoise---your instant reflex should put out his lights! That's what I'm going to be prepared to do. Sorry that happened to you--he was just an idiot!!!!!!!

If it has a business license, then it is a business, but you are correct, it is not enforced very often.

Enforcement of the 4" law depends on a few things...
- Reporting. Someone has to call the right department to report the activity
- Reality. The FDA health and Human Services agency (the ones who issued the law) is understaffed and underfunded to enforce all of the laws it has on its books. Contacting them will not result in an automatic investigation.
- Response. Often, the agency sends a boilerplate letter to the offender, and pretty much assumes it will be followed.

The 'Exception' everyone talks about is title 21, volume 8, part 1240, subpart D, section 1240.62:
"(d) Exceptions. The provisions of this section are not applicable to:
(1) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets.
(2) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs not in connection with a business.
(https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiseli...ch-law-new )

So... it has to be some sort of business, and the whole 'scientific, display, or education' bit does not really apply and if you sign something you are perjuring yourself and the store is both acting evilly and foolishly.

I wish I knew why a sucky place like Turtle Shack is still in business, but I see they use a lot of business names- they may just be hiding behind shell companies (rimshot!)

I've only been a tortoise guardian for a week and even I know to wash my hands after touching them. It comes up in every single article I've read...

This makes me sick

I am shaking my head.
29% of children infected are under a year old REALLY! Does anyone think it is insane that a parent of an infant isn't a little more careful about germs?!?!?!
For the saftey of TURTLES and CHILDREN any child young or stupid enough to put it in it's mouth should not be around them unsupervised period!

Now for Anna's point and totally O/T, but she is right and it used to drive me crazy. School sit kids in groups facing each other in class. Their desks are face to face, then parents send sick kids to school, they cough all over each other get MY kid sick then get an award at the end of the year for perfect attendance. Grrrr......... That should be illigal.

(10-19-2012 05:19 PM)jaizei Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 10:11 AM)StudentoftheReptile Wrote:  Reptile-born Salmonella (The only disease that can be transferred from reptile to humans)

I do not believe this is accurate.

You're correct. Salmonella is a technically a form of bacteria, not a disease per say. Salmonellosis is the infection caused by Salmonella bacteria.

But that may not be what you were referring to, I wager. There may be forms of zoonotic diseases that involve reptile-human transmission that I am not aware of, but again, they are apparently so rare and obscure that the risk of contracting one is even slimmer than contracting Salmonella. There have been no reports of any that I'm aware of.

If you have anything substantial to report that says otherwise, I'm sure we'd love to hear about it.

(10-19-2012 09:53 PM)Angi Wrote:  I am shaking my head.
29% of children infected are under a year old REALLY! Does anyone think it is insane that a parent of an infant isn't a little more careful about germs?!?!?!
For the saftey of TURTLES and CHILDREN any child young or stupid enough to put it in it's mouth should not be around them unsupervised period!

Now for Anna's point and totally O/T, but she is right and it used to drive me crazy. [...]parents send sick kids to school, they cough all over each other get MY kid sick then get an award at the end of the year for perfect attendance. Grrrr......... That should be illigal.

To the first part of your post... I go to PetSmart sometimes (it's fun looking around pet shops, what can I say? lol). Their website and displays specifically say turtles and tortoises are for children ages 12+ with adult supervision. I think there should be more rules about it, personally. You can only get Desert Tortoises from sanctioned adoption centers (loophole: getting captive bred tortoises as gifts) and they even do house checks to make sure the enclosure is set up properly. Maybe there need to be stricter rules to prevent stupid people from taking them home? Kind of asking a lot from businesses though. A lot of them just want to make money and don't care what happens afterwards. I could tell you horror stories about a mom and pop mall kiosk I worked at earlier this year... I quit that job in a hurry. I was disgusted.

As for the O/T portion... That's not always the parents' fault. At least not in the US. A lot of public schools get funding based on filled seats so they offer incentives for perfect attendance. Then there are rules about truancy. Parents can get into a lot of trouble (and possibly pay fines!) for not sending their kids to school.

I remember one instance when I was in trouble at school for not going. It was a discrepancy in my schedule back when I was in high school. I was accidentally enrolled in the wrong class (I didn't know this at the time) and I got called into the office for "ditching" class for something like a month. Thankfully the "wrong" teacher vouched for my being there and the copy I had of my schedule did show that to my knowledge I was in the right class so I didn't get into trouble.

No offense ellen, but more regulations are not the answer.

(10-19-2012 11:01 PM)StudentoftheReptile Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 05:19 PM)jaizei Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 10:11 AM)StudentoftheReptile Wrote:  Reptile-born Salmonella (The only disease that can be transferred from reptile to humans)

I do not believe this is accurate.

You're correct. Salmonella is a technically a form of bacteria, not a disease per say. Salmonellosis is the infection caused by Salmonella bacteria.

But that may not be what you were referring to, I wager. There may be forms of zoonotic diseases that involve reptile-human transmission that I am not aware of, but again, they are apparently so rare and obscure that the risk of contracting one is even slimmer than contracting Salmonella. There have been no reports of any that I'm aware of.

If you have anything substantial to report that says otherwise, I'm sure we'd love to hear about it.

Nice, putting the onus on me to disprove your definitive statement. A simple search will show you some of the reptile zoonoses that are possible (regardless of probability). Your statement dealt with possibility, not probability. Salmonella may be the most likely, but is not the only disease. If you can not find any other diseases, may I ask what search terms you are using? Try "reptile zoonoses" with the quotes.

Isn't the idea that there is only one disease (bacteria) communicable from reptile to human kinda fantastical? Perhaps I am just a skeptic (or just inquisitive) but I almost always want to know more when I hear something like this. I was aware of other reptile zoonoses, so I was fairly certain it was wrong. This is the first time I have heard this claim.

Here is a PDF of a Powerpoint presentation on reptile zoonoses (and fish, too) Other than Salmonellosis, the others are pretty danged rare.

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/facult...onoses.pdf