Hi,

This is my first post other than to say Hello in the Intro section.

I understand that for the most part, tortoises are not social animals in that they group together, but in a few instances. I'd like to feel that I am not asking potential pets to be something that is not in their nature.

Galops at a water hole, Aldabras in the shade of a tree I would consider social behavior - but I don't really want to keep any of these giants - fun to see and I hope to travel to these places, but...

So, some of the burrowing species may be social for the same reasons, limited resource, but not shade or wallows, but burrows. However I do not find many references that indicate that burrowing species are found together with much regularity.

Then I have found a few accounts where pancake tortoise are found together frequently. Again it seems to be based on a resource need, rock crevices, but that would tend to indicate it is in their nature, that they can deal with more or less constant close proximity to other pancake tortoises.

I'm figuring this is a debatable topic as it relates to general interest to co-house like species, but aside from the wants of the person owning the animals, within tortoises' own nature, don't you all think pancakes may qualify as social tortoises? Like Galops and albabras, but not several hundred pounds.

Alice

Hi, and welcome to the forum. I don't know about the different types of torts you mentioned, but I have two sulcatas and they are always looking for each other. When they sleep, they snug with each other. If I separate one from the other, one will climb her hide to get over to the other side so they can be together. If you ask me, I'd say sulcatas are social animals--and that's all there is to that.

Yes I would agree that pancakes could be defined as "social" in nature.

About the burrowing species: They tend to be the most aggressive toward each other. The three most aggressive tortoises that I can think of are CDTs, Russians and sulcatas. All three species will get along in the right enclosure with the right mix of conspecifics.

Tortoise are not social. They will tolerate cohabitation but they are not social animals. You can house 1 male and 3 females in a large habitat but other than that not really social.

Good first post!

Ok my info must be out dated I need to update what I know because what I'm reading now is contradicting what I know. I'm confused :?

Hi,

I'm using the reply button on my own thread to continue the thought.

Tom, I think, commented that CDT are among the most non-social. I think I read a small booklet by Walter Aufenberg from a University in Florida, that CDT that live in south western Utah use what could be considered fossil burrows, they are now concreted by natural processes over a very long time. That these burrows are the limiting resource for this population. That several tortoises will use one burrow, at least for hibernation.

This might not be 'social' more than survival, but it opens up the idea that the social could even be population specific.

I too have seen CDT be very aggressive with each other just by being in each others view, so it would seem.

I looked further as to what social means to indicate with animal groupings. In that case "cooperative interaction" indicates a active interchange between individuals, and so then I would guess even Pancakes are just sharing a limited resource, not really actively social.

Thanks for sharing. I've got much more reading to do.

I like to try and wear tortoise eyes when I consider what to do with my interest in keeping some. What's the tortoise contemplating?

Alice

(09-20-2012 05:44 AM)Alice.S Wrote:  ...
This might not be 'social' more than survival, but it opens up the idea that the social could even be population specific.

I looked further as to what social means to indicate with animal groupings. In that case "cooperative interaction" indicates a active interchange between individuals, and so then I would guess even Pancakes are just sharing a limited resource, not really actively social.
Alice

I agree, gathering at limited resources necessary to survival does not indicate social behavior. Perhaps there's a watering hole overlapping the homerange of 15 individuals in a population. At the most, this watering hole is 5 km from each individuals territory. Let's say they can travel 2 kilometers per hour and the next closest watering hole is 25 km away. Chances are they are all going to use the closer watering hole, not because they are seeking interaction with conspecifics, but because the cost of seeking an alternate water source could mean their survival.

Good post. Most tortoise species are solitary, but a few appear to be a bit more gregarious. Here are a couple of good, recent threads on this same topic:

"The great debate: turtle sociality"
"'herd' tortoises"

Individuals in the redfoot, pancake, Galapagos, Aldabra, and Burmese brown mountain tortoise species appear to have some social attraction to one degree or another. For all other species, and as in most reptiles, it seems that the only time they want to come together is to mate.

I will find that Jack(RF) will chase Petey(RF) around to try and mate her plenty, but after hours I will lift up the dog house top that they go under, and more often than not I will find Jack with his head resting on Louise's shell (ornate). I have never ever seen Jack trying to mount Louise.They have been together many many years. What could that be about? Is that considered social?


(Please I have already been through the whole 'don't mix' issue. Read about it many years(posts) ago if you are so inclined).

If I'm not mistaken, Terry O here on TFO keeps a redfoot with box turtles, and I think she has observed a similar phenomenon, with the redfoot hanging around the boxies as though it just wants to socialize with them. Did I get that right, Terry?

Here's a thread I started last year to show a YouTube video of a little box turtle chasing a larger redfoot tortoise. The video has since been taken down, though:
"Video of box turtle harassing redfoot tortoise"

You have either a really big red foot or a small box turtle. Or maybe its the camera angle? Either way very nice!

As far as the OP, you have some very good, and interesting points brought up. I wish I had more experience with other species so I could chime in. I know my cherry heads all seem to hang out together, even with multiple hides. But that's been discussed in other threads many times.

My leopards seem to be gregarious. When outside in a large area, there are usually several in close proximity to each other. The same ones are usually together.

(10-05-2012 06:12 AM)yagyujubei Wrote:  My leopards seem to be gregarious. When outside in a large area, there are usually several in close proximity to each other. The same ones are usually together.

Interesting. And surprising. I wouldn't have expected leopard tortoises to show much affinity for each other, besides sexual attraction, of course. How old are they?

(10-05-2012 07:45 AM)GeoTerraTestudo Wrote:  

(10-05-2012 06:12 AM)yagyujubei Wrote:  My leopards seem to be gregarious. When outside in a large area, there are usually several in close proximity to each other. The same ones are usually together.

Interesting. And surprising. I wouldn't have expected leopard tortoises to show much affinity for each other, besides sexual attraction, of course. How old are they?

I have an 11 yo female who is with three two year old males. Could be sexual, but usually it's her that seems to seek out the others. The males get along well also, but aren't quite mature enough to mate yet. Their outside pen is over 1000', but usually I find them all within a few feet of one another.